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Never disregard medical advice or delay in seeking medical attention because of something you have read on Women's Web. *** Log file opened: 9/16/2005 6:40:18 PM [18:40] CharisWOW [whats@F9CA7BF1.2AE2556F.4CED0712.IP] has joined #WomensSpace [18:40] ChanServ sets mode: +o CharisWOW [18:41] CharisWOW changes topic to "Welcome to #WomensSpace! Tonight, Abigail Natenshon answers your questions on eating disorders, body image, sensible dieting, and healthy eating." [18:41] #WomensSpace topic: Welcome to #WomensSpace! Tonight, Abigail Natenshon answers your questions on eating disorders, body image, sensible dieting, and healthy eating. [19:02] Abbie Natenshon is installing mIRC and will be joining us soon. [19:02] thank you, NatoJr :) [19:03] it's a very promising turnout so far. i'm glad you all could be here. [19:03] We have a co-host on her way in to join us. [19:05] Abbie will be with us momentarily. Please be patient. :) [19:07] For our new chatters, I hope you've had an opportunity to visit our awesome web site. You'll find our articles there, as well as and our message boards. [19:09] There are a lot of discussions on our message boards. I'm sure you can find many to your liking. :) [19:12] Or you can use this time to visit any one of Abbie's three web sites: www.empoweredparents.com, www.empoweredkidz.com or www.treatingeatingdisorders.com [19:13] The last is designed specificially for clinicians and practitioners. [19:14] Abbie [anatenshon@B8A4B945.9336BDEC.B419FB21.IP] has joined #WomensSpace [19:14] NatoJr [elizabethn@88A48150.8E24DA1C.7FAF977F.IP] has joined #WomensSpace [19:15] Wonderful!! [19:15] Welcome, everyone! [19:15] Tonight, Women Online Worldwide at www.wowwomen.com, in partnership with Women`s Web at www.womensweb.ca, is pleased to welcome Abigail H. Natenshon. [19:15] Welcome, Abbie! [19:15] An internationally renowned expert in the treatment of eating disorders, Abigail H. Natenshon, MA, LCSW, GCFP is a psychotherapist who has treated children, adults, couples, families and groups for the past 34 years. [19:15] For the next 2 hours, Abbie will be answering questions about eating disorders, body image, healthy eating, and dieting sensibly. [19:15] Hello everybody. I'm finally here, thanks to my helpers, Nato Jr et al. [19:15] we're so thrilled to have you, Abbie ! [19:15] We`re going to be using protocol for tonight`s chat. [19:15] For those unfamiliar with protocol, you will be called upon "in turn" to ask your question. [19:15] Send a private message to BouncyWOW. [19:15] She will hold your queue until it is your turn. [19:15] Have your question pre-typed so you can respond. [19:15] Please remember that responses given tonight should by no means be considered complete, nor should they be used in place of consultation with your physician, dietician, nutritionist, or heathcare professional. [19:15] Never disregard medical advice/therapy or delay in seeking medical attention/therapy because of something you have read on WOW or on Women`s Web. [19:15] Begin an exercise/diet programme only after consultation with your doctor. [19:16] Before we begin, I`d like to let you know that Abbie is the author of "When Your Child Has An Eating Disorder: A Step-by-Step Workbook for Parents and Other Caregivers" (Jossey Bass Publishers, 1999), and she hosts three informative web sites, www.empoweredparents.com, www.empoweredkidZ.com, a wholesome alternative to the pro-anorexic web sites, and www.treatingeatingdisorders.com designed specifically for health professionals and educators. [19:16] She has also appeared on national television as an eating disorder expert on The Oprah Winfrey Show, The John Walsh Show, Starting Over (NBC) as well as on MSNBC and National Public Radio. [19:16] Abigail is also a Guild Certified Feldenkrais Practitioner. [19:16] Particularly effective in treating long-term sufferers of eating disorders, victims of rape, sexual abuse, and self-mutilation, this technique creates a novel experience of body and the self, offering patients enhanced self-awareness, and new options for personal growth and change. [19:16] Now then... [19:16] We`ll open the chat to your questions very shortly, but before we do, Abbie, do you have any opening remarks? [19:16] Maybe you can define for us just what body image is, or maybe you can enlighten us on the meanings and origins of eating disorders. [19:17] I would define an eating diorder as the misuse of food to resolve emotional problems. [19:17] and do such disorders affect all demographics? [19:18] that is a pretty general statement tho - dont we all do that from time to time? [19:18] One's body image is the subjective picture of the self that we each carry within us. The reality of body image is a very subjective one, meaning that we don't always appear to others as we appear to ourselves. [19:19] People from all walks of life, from every social- economic group suffer from ED. [19:19] It is a disease of the upwardly mobile. [19:20] what exactly do you mean when you say upwardly mobile [19:20] From what little research I've seen, Eating Disorders are not really about eating. Depression, abuse, all sorts of things. And eating (or not) is the only thing the person feels in control of in their life. [19:20] We all use food in response to emotions at times. What defines an ED is the compulsive nature of the problem, the choiceless quality. [19:21] Upwardly mobile groups are those who are coming up to the middle class and beyond. They are people who are enjoying success financially and socially. [19:22] but not necessarily adolescent females, correct? [19:22] When people feel out of control of life, they turn to food as being the one thing that they do have control over. [19:22] Then, by an ironic turn of fate, the ED ends up taking control of their life. [19:23] Many people believe it's a disease of youth. This is not the case. Plenty of adults have eating disorders that they have carried with them from their youth into their middle age, into their marriages and careers. [19:23] and it going further into the youth right? [19:23] younger [19:24] We are seeing ED in younger and younger children... some as young as age 5 or 6. [19:24] that is awfully young [19:24] it is! [19:24] why do you think the young children suffer more and more [19:25] ED in young kids are brought on generally by anxiety and poor eating habits. In older teens and young adults, it tends to be a problem brought on by identity issues and self-esteem issues as well. [19:25] what is that trend? [19:25] Bottom line, though, is that people don't get ED unless they are genetically predisposed to getting them. [19:26] Abbie, perhaps you can identify some risk factors. [19:26] what things might predispose someone? [19:26] but years ago the onset age was higher [19:26] why? [19:27] So, the basic predispositon is in the genes... if there is substance abuse, anxiety, depression, eating disorders in earlier generations, etc. [19:27] we'll let Abbie respond, and then I believe Moonchild101 has a question. [19:28] Then, triggers might include going on a diet and not being able to stop, having a death or divorce in the family, getting invited to the prom and having to fit into a dress. Not getting invited to the prom and feeling fat. [19:28] My daughter suffered from anorexia when she was a teenager. Now I have a granddaughter who is getting chunky. In light of my daughter's history, is it possible that my granddaughter will be predisposed to an eating disorder if we try to get her on some kind of diet? [19:28] very good -- and timely -- question, Moonchild101 ! [19:29] I would not allow her to go on a diet. Instead I would help her to understand what healthy eating is and that if she eat healthfully, and regularly, she'll stay healthy. [19:29] Thank you, Abbie, she is five and your comment about the young ones scared me. I will do that. [19:29] Healthy eating is eating three meals a day of balanced and nutrious foods. [19:30] Healthy eating is eating in moderation and eating everything, including sweets of junk food, if in moderation. It's the extremes (like dieting) that creates problems for people. [19:31] For the younger ones, I wonder if creating a game using flashcards and helping children pick out foods they like to represent a complete meal might be a worthwhile ideal for Moonchild101 to try with her granddaughter? [19:31] it is hard when one goes out to eat to eat small amounts [19:31] what are some suggestions you provide on www.empoweredparents.com, Abbie ? [19:32] That is a great idea. The best way to help a child learn to eat healthfully is to model healthy eating for that child... to sit down to meals with him or her and to cook and eat toether as families. [19:32] After Abbie 's response, I believe Bubbles2 has a question [19:32] thanks, BouncyWOW [19:32] What is the best way to help someone who has an eating disorder? [19:33] Am I talking to just Mom's here or might some of you have questions pertaining to your own selves as well?? [19:34] I think it's fair to say that it's a mix, Abbie :) [19:35] Natojr points out that restaurants serve large quantities. It's a reality and people need to be aware and purposeful when they dit down to eat. [19:35] olive garden has never ending pasta bowls [19:35] or use small plates at serve yourself so you have to get up to get more food [19:35] good idea, DLC55 [19:35] that way you feel like a hog [19:36] Lots of people I work with in my practice don't have a good idea about what healthy eating is. Some people believe that healthy eating is fat-free eting, for example. [19:37] so what happens if someone has more servings because it is fat-free? [19:37] Another misconception is that healthy eating is eating when you are hungry and stopping when you are full. (No three meal structure here...it doesn't work.) [19:37] Mcdonald's started offering apple wedges with their kids meals and also as a side order instead of french fries. they come with Caramel sauce. is that healthy? [19:38] if I can make a comment, here, then we'll allow Abbie to finish this thread, and move on to Q&A. There are 2 questions in queue... [19:38] ok CharisWOW [19:38] Apples are certainly very good for you and caramel is fine too, if you don't eat it several times a day. [19:38] Abbie has a valid point. If you observe babies being breastfed, they pull away when they are full. Instinctively, we recognize satiety. Yet, that is "conditioned" out of us with messages like "You can't leave the table until you finish everything on your plate." [19:39] You never had my babies charis! [19:39] lol that's true! [19:39] LMAO DLC55 [19:39] Bubbles2, you were asking earlier how to help someone with an ED... Abbie, can you address that? [19:40] I think kids need to learn accurate cues for hunger and satiety by having three meals a day put down in front of them and letting the body lern to adjust to those rhythms. [19:40] Some babies will breastfeed/suck on a bottle for comfort rather then out of hunger [19:41] I always thought teaching a child to cook helped them learn nutrition [19:41] I believe it does. [19:41] Do you want to address helping someone with an ED? It's a pretty broad question. [19:41] Yaybe Bubbles2, you can make your question more specific? Are we talking binge eating, or food deprivation? [19:42] I think the most important thing is to be honest about what you see and what you know *if the person is sick, he or she needs help) despite their reluctance to see the problem of get help. [19:42] what types of supportive things might we say and do, Abbie ? [19:43] yet there isnt much we can do if the person isnt willing to help themselves [19:43] sad and true, DLC55 [19:43] Friends an dfamily members must be courageous enough not to back down if they see that a problem is going untended. [19:43] very true DLC [19:43] I think sometines the most supportive thing is the hardest thing to hear. [19:44] HelperBot, would you like to ask your question now? [19:44] or did you have more to add, Abbie ? [19:44] I think people need to realize that it takes a lot of work and is very difficult to recover, but it is very do-able and is well worth the effort. [19:44] Skip me, Charis ;) [19:44] After HelperBot 's question I believe Moonchild101 has another question [19:45] okay. go ahead, Moonchild101 :) [19:45] People who recover from ED generally have much better quality of existence, become much better problem-solvers and copers in life post recovery. [19:45] I am a recovering addict with ten years clean. I never had a problem eating...outside of the drug usage issues but now I am older, in menopause and I find myself questioning my self image and body looks. I know I am obsessive and compulsive. What can I do for myself as far as improving the way I feel about my self image? [19:45] Many people even say that they are grateful to have had the experience, as hard as it is to go through. [19:46] very good question, Moonchild101 !! [19:46] Hormones can make peopel very depressed and depression can sometimes be seen in bodfy image problems. [19:46] I can't take hormones. [19:47] To feel better, you could probably do well to use the coping tools you learned in your past recovery. [19:47] By the way, congrats on your sobriety all those years. That's really something. [19:47] Thank you :-) [19:47] Yes, hats off to you {{{{ Moonchild101 }}}} [19:47] Way to go!! [19:47] way to go Moonchild101 [19:48] Abbie, can you perhaps clarify for us. Many people carry the notion that ED is food deprivation, but compulsive eating is also considered and ED, isn't it? [19:48] How are the two similar and how are they different? [19:48] There are several kinds of ED. All are based on the pathological fear of becoming fat. [19:49] Anorexics generally are perfectionistic and restrict food. [19:49] Bulimics tend to eat impulsively and purge as a way to keep theior weight down. [19:49] Compulisve overeaters sometiomes purge, sometimes don't. [19:50] can you talk about what exactly bulimarexia is ? [19:50] Eating Disorders Not Otherwise Specified are ED that don't fall into any specific categories. These dieases are so diverse. Each person's disorder is totally different from each other. [19:50] Interesting... [19:51] Some anorexics are bulimic too. Bulimics who purge sometimes starve themselves too. [19:51] I have a question for you, Abbie. ;) [19:51] In fact, its; the starving that leads to such extreme hunger that people tend to gorge themselves with food afterwards and then feel forced to purge. [19:51] Actually a two-part question. [19:52] Go ahead.... [19:52] Well, you mention pro-anorexic web sites. First, can you tell us just what those are and what messages they send, and second, what roles do schools have in encouraging healthy body image, physical activity, and healthy eating? [19:52] lol long-winded as usual, that's me. [19:53] Schools, team sports, coaches, and the like. [19:54] The pro-anorexic sites legitamize these disorders. They encourage viewers to be proud of these behaviors that they see as indicators of self-control and discipline. [19:54] shameful! [19:54] CharisWOW, schools here in Califorinia are starting to get stricter on junk foods and are encouraging healthier eating habbits [19:54] They have done a great deal to influence youngsters to become sicker. [19:55] great, BouncyWOW! [19:55] why would people encourage these diseases?????????? [19:55] I don't get that, personally. [19:55] I think schools can do a great deal to help kids learn how to eat better....they can start by getting rid of their vending machines filled with candy and chips, first off. [19:56] as is being done in California (thanks, BouncyWOW!) and here in Canada. [19:56] Sallvie brought home a note from the prncipal stating that if parents want to send a snack to school with their children to make it a fruit or vegetable [19:56] ED web sites are a way for isolated kids to feel that they belong to something and that they are cool. [19:56] here in Canada, there is a push to encourage fun physical activities. [19:57] That is good CharisWOW [19:57] these messages can be undone, and I know that sites such as yours (www.empoweredkidz.com) are working to that end. [19:57] a good site [19:57] but unfortunatly society influences more [19:57] Technically speaking, there's nothing so terrible about bringing a non-veggie snack to school... as long as the child is getting veggies to eaat later at home. Remember, the key to healthy eating is to eat ALL foods, and in balance and moderation. [19:58] I fully agree! And breakfast programs and lunch programs a step in the right direction! [19:58] Society does a lot to promote the need for thinness. 25% of first grade girls have already been on diets! That's by age 6! [19:58] most dieticians now will tell diabetics that they don't have to give up their favorite foods, just understand how to eat them [19:58] The kids and parents are being discouraged from bringing chips and candy as a snack [19:59] very true, DLC55 ! [19:59] WOW Abbie that is awfully young to have been on a diet [19:59] There are sensible substitutes, BouncyWOW. Like rice snacks in place of chips. [19:59] but how come diets are so big since they don't work ? [19:59] I am in agreement with DLC55 as well. It's not easy to eat that way all the time, and nobody can, but we need to try to seek that was of eating as an ideal. [19:59] BouncyWOW says nothing about the rice cakes [20:00] I'd like to remind you that if you would like to ask a question, please feel free to send a message to BouncyWOW :) [20:00] which is why they always have another diet [20:00] Which is why I'll quote Richard Simmons.... diet contains the word die... [20:00] I read that if you diet you are more apt to be overweight [20:00] DLC55 loves ricecakes [20:01] Diets truly do not work. 98% of people who diet gain back all their lost weight and more within a year. [20:01] you can have my share DLC55 [20:01] So how many of those 6 year olds are fueled by their own need to be thin versus the fact that they watch the world around them counting carbs and popping "blocker" pills left and right? [20:01] Not only that, they end up damaging their metabolism and then have an even tougher time keeping themselves thin. [20:01] or watching mom binge and purge? [20:01] good points, HelperBot and Abbie [20:02] bouncy, our lunch snacks are the small ricecakes lol [20:02] HelperBot I think you might have hit the nail on the head....... at 6 I believe children are more influenced by outside forces rather than their own [20:02] can eating certain foods heighten the rate of metabolism ? [20:02] I think those 6 year olds see their parents skipping breakfast and drinking Slimfast and deduce that food must be bad, fattening and the enemy. [20:03] So the key again is reinforcing the importance of three balanced meals and healthy snacking, right? [20:04] and taking time for meals with family right, abbie ? [20:04] actually 4-6 small meals is good too [20:04] I've read that too, DLC55 [20:04] NatoJr you have a good point there [20:04] I beleive that the family aspect of eating is vital. It is where kids learn how to feed themselves as well as connect with those they love. [20:05] NatoJr, i think that when you're engaged in conversation and with good company, it allows you to slow down while eating and to savor food more. It distracts you from counting calories or from scarfing everything down too quickly. [20:05] I remember my family dinners with such fondness [20:05] Eating as a family builds health food associations. [20:05] good point charis [20:05] Only if they family does communicate Charis... .not all families do or know how [20:06] 4 - 6 small meals works for a lot of people too. The main thing is that you have to be sure that you are giving yourself enough protein and complex carbos and fats through out the day to fuel your body, feed your brain, manufacture red blood cells, etc. [20:06] that is true, DLC55 [20:06] I enjoy sitting down at the dinner table with my son [20:06] DLC55 calculates the red blood cell production [20:06] i live alone, BouncyWOW, so it's harder for me. [20:07] Communication is something families can learn to do better. That's a great thing to work on if it's not at a level where people feel connected. [20:07] you know there is so much socialization around food in society [20:08] how so? [20:08] there is. it's used in mourning, celebration, housewarming, all kinds of things. [20:08] oh yeah [20:08] Dating [20:08] social rituals. :) [20:08] meetings [20:08] coffee [20:08] let's do lunch [20:08] deaths [20:08] Each of those has food associations -- be they good or bad. [20:08] holidays [20:09] if only they fed you when you had children [20:09] Food is a marvelous socialization tool. Food is also used to fuel and satiate hunger. [20:09] There is nothing I like better than sampling new foods with friends. :) [20:09] DLC55 reminds her company of the food socialization thing [20:09] i concur charis [20:09] I use food during meetings.. it's the only thing that motivates people to come to them [20:09] lol [20:10] LOL HelperBot [20:10] Are there other questions for Abbie? Please 1/1 them to BouncyWOW. She'll hold them in sequence and call on you when it's your turn. :) [20:10] Food at meetings makes people feel cared for... even while it gives them energy to keep on concentrating. [20:10] when all you lecture about is abuse and neglect, it takes donuts and cheesecake to get a good turnout [20:10] it makes people feel validated, welcome, and comfortable. that's why we keep the WOW fridge fully stocked at all times. *giggle* [20:10] I know people who don't bread at a business lunch because they want to stay very alert into the work afternoon. [20:11] Abbie, i have another question for you, please. [20:12] Dove's new ad campaigns challenge the beauty myth (http://www.campaignforrealbeauty.com/) and also challenge us to re-examine what we consider beautiful. The song "Baby Got Fat" is being heralded as an anthem "for women with big butts". What is your take on these types of ads, songs, and music videos that attempt to debunk the beauty myth? Are they doing enough to help encourage positive body image? [20:13] Do any of you know people who have an ED? They are actually rare in society. Only 5% of adolescents. [20:13] I knew a BED/compulsive overeater. [20:13] (that's binge eating disorder) ;) [20:14] But disordered eating is rampant. 40-50% of girls on campuses today in the US... [20:14] Some of that depends on definitions. I know the word anorexia carries different ones. I work with lotsa folks that have anorexia as a diagnosis, but it refers to undesireable weight loss, not necessarily willfully starving onceself. [20:14] It can be a very wrenching life experince and it is so important to be able to support a person through the hard times. [20:15] good point, HelperBot ! [20:15] Mine daughter did it willfully. :-( [20:15] I'm really sorry, Moonchild101. How is she now? [20:15] She doesn't do it any more. She was diagnosed as manic depressive and was given help. [20:16] Anorexia is not the same as Anorexia Nervosa. The latter is the ED. Anorexia alone is just the inablility to eat. My cat has anorexia. [20:16] abbie are you saying the ed terms can be misued as most of what society has is disordered eating? [20:16] so, disordered eating = not eating well/healthy or according to the food pyramid whereas eating disorder = self-esteem, addiction, abuse, other risk factors we've already discussed? [20:16] thank you for clarifying the misuse of "anorexia" :) [20:17] Yes. There is so much disordered eating out there that disordered eating seems to have become the new norm. So many people skip breakfast that it seems to be a norm these days. Yet breakfast is our most important meal. [20:17] i'm glad your daughter has overcome her ED, Moonchild101. Mom must have been a great support. :) [20:17] Breakfast? *shudder* [20:18] CharisWOW raises hand. guitly as charged. I sometimes skip breakfast. [20:18] And I don't always have a good dinner. [20:18] Allie is not a breakfast person, usually have an early lunch [20:18] I think it has to do with the rush of things [20:18] I think you're right. [20:18] Disordered eating is eating that is not balanced and regular eating. It is based on the fear of fat, but is not a clinical disease in its not being totally compulsive. [20:18] society gets busier and busier [20:18] I eat three meals a day but breakfast is usually at dinner time. I get up for work at 5 am and I just can't eat then. I will have a mini-meal at my first break at 8 am. [20:19] so we have no time and things get done al at once [20:19] yup. [20:19] breakfast here is an everything bagel with either [20:19] light cream cheese or cheddar cheese lol [20:19] Remember that skipping a meal now and then is not an ED. It's when it HAS to happen in order for a person to feel good about himself that you find the distinction. [20:20] When I skip meals, I feel bad. Physically and mentally and emotionally. Depriving yourself of food makes you lethargic and groggy. [20:21] I wonder, do you give any special targeted advice to vegans/vegetarians regarding sensible eating, Abbie ? [20:21] have a Luna bar then with fruit your all set for the morning [20:21] Unless of course you are anorexic... then depriving yourself of food makes you feel empowered and strong and special. [20:21] right. [20:21] Bubbles2 and java_chat, you've been very quiet. we'd like to hear from you. :) [20:22] Does either of you have an opinion, question, or thought to share with the group? [20:22] Vegetarianism is tough to carry off if you want to stay healthy. You have to be committed to creating proteins through combining foods. It's a responsibility. Many ED people do it as an excuse to legitimize food restriction. [20:22] I'm just listening and learning. Enjoying the chat very much, ty, Charis. [20:22] oh, good. :) [20:23] An interesting stat about obesity: [20:23] CharisWOW is curious to read what stats Abbie has. :) [20:24] If one parent is obese, the child has a 40% chance of being obese. If both parents are obese, the child an 80% chance. [20:24] If neither are obese, the child has a 15% chance. [20:24] man I got the 40 % [20:24] my dad is still rather slim, but obesity runs rampant in my mother's family. my grandmother was less than 5' and nearly 300 pounds at death. [20:24] I struggle with weight, but I don't make it my focus. [20:24] HelperBot took the 40% and then overachieved [20:24] lol [20:24] hahahahahahaha [20:25] me neither charis [20:25] its me [20:25] take it or leave it [20:25] If I could just get the ole OCD to work in the right direction I'd be set ROFL [20:25] rofl [20:25] gawd [20:25] help me [20:25] LOL [20:25] Awwe DLC55 [20:25] OCD by the way is an important factor in people developing perfectionism around food and weight management. [20:26] With food deprivation, one can become sallow, suffer jaundice, and those who purge can have gum and tooth problems such as teeth's falling out or the enamel's becoming eroded. organ failure can also result. [20:26] Abbie, is eating too much and becoming obese another type of ED? I mean, can having food become your best friend become an eating disorder too? [20:26] You see a lot of people with anorexia also having OCD, anxiety and fears. [20:26] (obsessive-compulsive disorder) ;) [20:27] With obesity, there are health risks too. High blood pressure and/or cholesterol, diabetes, heart attack, stroke. [20:27] Obesity is not the same thing as an ED. Some people overeat becasue they love food and some are overweight from genetics... [20:28] can it be both of those things [20:28] By the same tken, some ED overeaters are not fat becuase they starve themsleves in between binges. [20:28] CharisWOW obesity is also a risk factor for cancers [20:28] yes, it is. [20:28] thank you, BouncyWOW [20:28] Yet some eat from a lot of the same issues... depression, low self image... [20:28] you're welcome [20:29] do you believe certain sports are to blame, at least in part, for ED? figure skating, gymnastics, and other sports that have "weigh in" ? [20:29] ture Bubbles2 [20:30] I guess they are more the opposite sides of the same coin.... [20:30] The stats on dancers is unbelievable. There is 6 times as much AN amongst dancers than in the general population. [20:30] I believe that! [20:30] wow [20:30] I think Nadio Comaneci struggled with it, if I'm not mistaken. [20:31] as I'm sure countless others have too. [20:31] One of my anorexic patients was an ice skater who started a diet at age 13 when her coach told her her butt was looking too big in her outfit. She's been anorexic for the past 20 years! [20:31] They get that from the coaches always yelling "you're fat, lose weight" [20:31] oh, geeze, Abbie !!! [20:31] Because they have to have low weight to fit in their costumes and to look good [20:31] OH my Abbie [20:31] that's awful! [20:31] Yes, sports can be associated with these diseases, partially because of the lifestyle and discipline required to participate in them. Then there are always the steroids.... [20:32] don't the coaches think something might be wrong? [20:32] Which is weird, don't steroids cause you to eat more? [20:32] Besides acne, infertility/impotence, liver/kidney failure, what are some of the other risks of steroids? [20:32] Horseback riding is a big anorexic sport. Bulimia is something you often see with wrestlers and gymnasts. [20:33] I'm surprised it is with wrestlers [20:33] The biggest risk is just plain CHEATING!!! [20:33] that's interesting, Abbie. i didn't know that about equestrian sport! [20:33] Horseback riding???? [20:33] ^5 Abbie [20:33] i fully agree with that, Abbie. [20:33] Makes sense... what horse wants a 300lb rider? [20:34] lol [20:34] giggle [20:34] Tee hee HelperBot [20:34] lol [20:34] :) [20:34] ack!!! shame on me!!!! you know what? [20:34] CharisWOW hangs head in embarrassment! [20:34] what? [20:34] And horseback riding is about taking control! Of food, of thehorse....you see how the food behaviors generalize into other behaviors in life??? [20:34] what [20:34] what CharisWOW ???? [20:35] We have talked all evening about ED, but I haven't yet asked the MOST important question! Abbie, forgive me. [20:35] good point Abbie [20:35] What's that? [20:35] What are some of the signs and warning signals that someone you know may have an ED? [20:35] There are lots. Eating restriction and weight loss at two for starters. [20:35] Abbie, so is the common perception of ED being mainly a female thing not really true? You mentioned wrestlers.... [20:35] I hadn't made the connection between control of food and control of beast, but now that you mention it, it makes perfect sense! [20:35] What's the difference between the discipline, control and lifestyle between sports etc and say musicians that require the same level of discipline and control, just in different ways? Lord knows there's a whole lotta fat pianists out there.. [20:36] very good question once again, Moonchild101 ! [20:36] lol HelperBot [20:36] of even yourself? I am sure most people don't think they have ED until they have had an ED for a while [20:36] Disappearing into the bathroom during meals, pushing food around the plate, spitting into napkins, depression and irritability, social withdrawal, preocciupation with being fat even when someone is not fat, etc. [20:37] layering their outfits to look heavier than they are [20:37] Exercising excessively, being cold, and baggy clothes? yellowish skin? are those signs too? [20:37] good one, pearlcat ! [20:37] You are right about that. ED evolve. They happen over time. They start out benign enough... then they turn out to be killers. The most lethal of all the mental health disorders. [20:38] yellowish skin related to an ED? [20:38] Laying out a million outfits is right, seeking to look thin, yet looking at themselves in the mirror with distorted eyes and seeing fat where fat doesn't exist. [20:38] I've read that in the most extreme cases, hospitals have to directly feed patients through the vena cava because the esophagus is so damaged from vomiting and the body cannot take food orally. [20:38] On Dr. Phil they had a woman who weighed 115 for her height and weight she was ideal, her boyfriend told her she was fat, now she ways 60 lbs [20:38] omg [20:39] Yes, damage to the liver/gallbladder can do that, if I remember my biology right, BouncyWOW [20:39] Omg [20:39] oh ok CharisWOW [20:39] That's really very sad, pearlcat [20:39] That goes to socialization. What makes *the man* the authority on what's a fat woman? [20:39] In extreme and long-term cases, the body becomes badly damaged. Some people have to be fed on tubes. Other effects are bone loss, the loss of the menstrual period, reflux and gastritis, etc. [20:40] It's all coming back to me now, Abbie. [20:40] she has been hospitalized for help so she now has a chance [20:40] I sure hope she makes it, pearlcat !! [20:40] The thing about ED too, is that they don't show up in lab tests, not in the doctor's office. They have to be diagnosed at home! [20:40] Moonchild101 wonders why they call the loss of the menstrual period a loss.... [20:40] LOL Moonchild101 [20:41] Abbie, do you believe that high profile celeb cases such as Tracey Gold or Mary-Kate Olsen hinder or help the efforts of those trying to recover from ED? [20:41] It doesn't show through albumen levels? [20:42] You've lost me, HelperBot. what doesn't show up? [20:42] I think people are influenced to think it's cool to be ED if they see their idols doing it. But, bottom line, even if they think it's cool, they won't develop a true ED unless it's been scripted by heredity. [20:42] That's comforting to know. [20:42] It`s nearly time to wrap up tonight`s discussion. [20:42] I remind everyone again of Abbie`s book, "When Your Child Has An Eating Disorder: A Step-by-Step Workbook for Parents and Other Caregivers" (Jossey Bass Publishers, 1999), and of her three informative web sites, www.empoweredparents.com, www.empoweredkidZ.com, a wholesome alternative to the pro-anorexic web sites, and www.treatingeatingdisorders.com designed specifically for health professionals and educators. [20:42] Abbie, do you have any closing thoughts or remarks before we end the chat? [20:42] Reflux? My daughter wasn't bulimic but now suffers from reflux. Can that be a carry on of her AN? [20:43] Evidence of ED do not show up in blood tests or in urine tests. They don't show up in EKGs either till they are evolved and dangerous. [20:43] Because of heart palpitations and arhtythmia? [20:43] Possibly, Moonchild. [20:44] There are about 15 minutes left in the chat; if you have any questions to ask, please feel welcome to do so. [20:44] isn't it true that terri schiavo had bulimia ? [20:44] I would leave you with oprimism about these diseases. They are curable in 80% of cases where detected early and treated properly. [20:45] Schiavo did have ED as I understand it. It is that that put her into her coma. [20:45] How very sad. [20:45] 80% That is good to know. [20:46] treatment consists of "undoing" negative self-talk and behaviors. Is that accomplished through talk therapy, behavior modification and retraining our attitudes about food, or is there more? [20:46] Very curable. 50% of those cured never consider food to be an "issue" again. It's complete and total. The other 30% need to stay in therapy on an ad hoc basis to treat underlying issues as they arise. [20:46] Those are great odds!!! Better than what we have in alcoholic/drug addiction recovery. [20:46] And that is where psychotherapists such as yourselves play a key role, Abbie. [20:46] is there usually a time table for recovery ? [20:47] I like all of those options that you just mentioned CharisWOW. They are important cognitive-behavioral techniques. [20:47] Those odds are very encouraging. I feel very optimistic. more so than i did before re: ED. [20:47] Is there anything you would like to tell us about your book for parents, Abbie, or about your web sites? [20:49] My book explains what ED are and what must happen in treatment in order for full recovery to happen. It is an empowering book for parents and patients, encouraging them to be real and honest, to step up and to speak out and to support their loved ones. [20:50] It was so great to meet you all. You are a great group of people. [20:50] Abbie`s book, "When Your Child Has An [20:50] Eating Disorder: A Step-by-Step Workbook for Parents and Other Caregivers" (Jossey Bass Publishers, 1999) [20:50] Thank you for the wonderful chat Abbie [20:50] Once again, on behalf of both WOW and Women`s Web, BouncyWOW and I would like to ask you all to join us in thanking our special guest, Abigail Natenshon. [20:50] My pleasure..... [20:50] Thank you for enlightening us [20:50] thanks [20:50] Please watch for the transcript of this chat to apear on both www.wowwomen.com and www.womensweb.ca in the following days. [20:50] If you have additional thoughts, questions, or comments following tonight`s chat, please feel welcome to post them on the message boards at www.wowwomen.com or at www.womensweb.ca. [20:50] It`s been a very informative and interesting chat. Thanks so much, Abbie! [20:51] I've really learned a lot! [20:51] Thank you Abbie BouncyWOW CharisWOW HelperBot NatoJr [20:51] And thank you all. I really enjoyed myself being with you. [20:51] thanks for your time and a great chat and information Abbie [20:51] If you'd like more information about eating disorders, please visit: http://www.womensweb.ca/nutrition/ed [20:51] Abbie has contributed much of the content that appears there. :) [20:52] Thank you very much. [20:52] please stick around for casual chat following tonight's guest chat. :) [20:53] Thanks for joining us. :) [20:56] if you'd like to read Abbie's bio, please go to www.womensweb.ca/articles/abbie.php [20:57] or ... book, "When Your Child Has An Eating Disorder: A Step-by-Step Workbook for Parents and Other Caregivers" (Jossey Bass Publishers, 1999), and of her three informative web sites, www.empoweredparents.com, www.empoweredkidZ.com, a wholesome alternative to the pro-anorexic web sites, and www.treatingeatingdisorders.com designed specifically for health professionals and educators. *** Log file closed: 9/16/2005 8:57:39 PM